Monicks: Unleashed

Thinking Critically

By

Why do you believe in god?

 

This is a relevant Wiki about Mithra

80 Responses to Why do you believe in god?

  1. “M” very through, touched many bases. super awesomeness.

    Kriss

  2. asphalto says:

    Very nice post. Thanks.

  3. I believe in God through Jesus Christ because of all the miracles He did, the design of creation, the remarkable history and preservation of the Jewish nation, the transformation that occurs when a man is born anew through the Spirit of God (as in my own life), the truths found in the Bible – especially the resurrection of the body of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the likemindedness of all Believers in God.

    A recent convert in our church, a surgeon, said he was an atheist all his life. He is now a born-again Christian. He told us that people who are the generally angry and vocal against God are the ones who are most likely to receive to be regenerated and converted. “A convicted atheist rests in his (her) beliefs and tries to convert no one to the religion of atheism ,” so the good doctor told us. How do you explain the change of mind of Dr. Antony Flew, the celebrated 20th century philosopher who fought religion all his life? How do you explain the conversion of Chuck Colson? The Apostle Paul went from mass murderer to becoming the profound Christian writer in church history, penning much of the New Testament. Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins are attacking religion now, but if the doctor is correct they are ripe for conversion.

    I can easily refute every point you have made in your post, and may do so under a separate article.

    The Lord Jesus Christ is alive; all the others are lifeless in their graves. Jesus is more alive and more real to me (and all other believers) than you are.

  4. Dave Rogars says:

    Monica, This is one of the best compilations of the ancient, ignorant lunacy we’re still stuck with that I’ve ever come across. Religion remains the greatest deadweight humanity has dragged along for far too long. This post is an instant bookmark for future reference. Thanks.

  5. Mark says:

    Michael Voss…

    The Apostle Paul went from mass murderer to becoming the profound Christian writer in church history, penning much of the New Testament.

    He was basically shunned by he local Jewish sects for pocketing taxes.
    He despised Judaism and created his own form of religion borrowing from Greek mythology and Mithraism.

    He never met Christ and was a self-appointed apostle.

    Haven’t you wondered why there are no quotes from Christ in Paul’s writings???

    He hijacked the the whole thing and made into an undisciplined pork eaters convention.

    Thank you Paul for dropping Mitzvot dietary laws.

  6. Nicholas,

    did you AT ALL make an effort to read Monica’s post?

  7. Nice one Monica. As usual..

    Thanks!

    Love, Vizhnet!

  8. GarageRock says:

    Great stuff Monica.

  9. Tyler says:

    I liked the post, but you may want to read this link about Mithra:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_Mysteries

    It questions the validity of the comments about Mithra.
    “Mithras was born as an adult from solid rock”
    “The festival of natalis Invicti [Birth of the Unconquerable (Sun)], held on 25 December, was a general festival of the Sun, and by no means specific to the Mysteries of Mithras.”
    “Mithraic salvation had little to do with the other-worldly destiny of individual souls, but was on the Zoroastrian pattern of man’s participation in the cosmic struggle of the good creation against the forces of evil.”

  10. How do you explain the change of mind of Dr. Antony Flew, the celebrated 20th century philosopher who fought religion all his life?

    Senility. I’m serious.

    Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins are attacking religion now, but if the doctor is correct they are ripe for conversion.

    Oh, man! I just spilled my coffee! That’s too funny!

    Have your surgeon friend explain why there are vastly more people rejecting religion who were once believers than the other way round.

    I can easily refute every point you have made in your post, and may do so under a separate article.

    I wait with bated breath. $5 says I see not a single new argument, all the same logic errors (argument from ignorance will be first and foremost), and all the old ones have been demolished. Read The Non-existence of God by Nicholas Everitt for a comprehensive deconstruction.

    Jesus is more alive and more real to me (and all other believers) than you are.

    Then you are in need of some serious psychological help. Seriously.

  11. Jessica says:

    Uhhh Nicholas, I think your missing the entire point of Monica’s post. You are just accepting everything in the bible as if it is fact, when it is actually heresay. Why don’t you do yourself a favour and question your faith? What are you scared of? If your religion is as apparent as you say it is then you’ll have no problem in google-ing Mirtha!

  12. Sawyer says:

    This is by far the most concise and thoughtful summary of the fallacies of Christianity I have seen to date. Thank you for the post!

    I myself am a recent convert and atheist. Brought up fundamentalist baptist, I struggled and fought many years to overcome the indoctrination given to me at a young age. It was reason and study that eventually helped open my eyes, although I am embarrassed to say it took me 30 years.

    In the spirit of the community I make the following suggestions for this post:

    (1) The part on inheriting sin from Adam and Eve could also show that, due impossibility of this story due to what we now KNOW of evolution, the entire Biblical concept of original sin is false.

    (2) It seems that there are many contentions as to the specifics of Mithra religion. This may need a bit of revision. There are certainly borrowed pieces from other gods/religions that could be shown as well.

  13. Andrew says:

    Indeed – it is right to question. And anti-theist dogma should no more be accepted unquestioned as any other kind.

    And so I question your Mithras comparison – a source please?
    This page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_Mysteries#Mithraism_and_Christianity tends to disagree with most of that. (Indeed, as I understand it, much of the C19th scholarship on this has been shown to be fairly dubious, and it has no real mainstream scholarly support – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ-myth )

    (It’s also worth pointing out that it was evangelical Christians who spearheaded the abolition of slavery in Britain.)

    It’s also a bit of strawman to keep saying ‘your church told you’.

    And Epicurus’ dilemma has been shown many times to lack an actual logical contradiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurean_paradox (indeed, it may even be wrongly attributed!)

  14. Andrew says:

    And one more fallacy:

    If in “Who should we kill” by ‘we’ you mean pre-Christ Hebrew authorities, then fine, if not, then your exegesis is dodgy (actually I’m guessing non-existent).

  15. Your friend says:

    Apparently God gave you over to a deprived mind. I could say “enjoy your life”, however you will not know joy until you turn (or return) to God through Jesus Christ. You may chose to be “your own companion and love your self the most”, but you are also “your own enemy”, so without Christ you are lost forever.
    Whatever issues you have that made you rely only on yourself and not God, through faith and belief God can help you overcome. However, you going AGAINST Him and proclaiming He does not exist and mocking His existence, will not help you at all. Take care.

  16. Steve J says:

    What always annoys me about your type of post is the fact that the ideas aren’t your own. I’ve seen similiar mindless regurgitation 100 times if I’ve seen it once. It has no original style and is a really boring read.

    “Insert profession of love and devotion to deity here. Affirm conviction in your particular articles of faith. (Don’t bother reading said articles, it’ll just confuse you. Request that your shaman remind you why you believe what you believe.)
    Tell anecdote of conversions, preferably famous or well educated persons (scientific education or intellectuals preferred, PhD or MD also helps).
    Deny any facts that have been presented. (Don’t provide any of your own, you’ll need to ask your shaman what facts your particular cult has, or can at least present as facts.)
    Reaffirm your faith, express love/concern/pity for blasphemers. Remind blasphemers of torments that await them after death. (Expressing joy or concern regarding the torments that await the blasphemer is optional)
    Finish with blessing, expletives or 3rd affirmation of faith or a mixture of all three.

    See, pretty boring. Let’s try a different approach.
    Before you post again please read the Bible from cover to cover (King James remains the best translation IMHO),
    research the history of your faith.
    Find out when the stories were written and how many different versions exist. Research other Middle Eastern religions that existed prior to yours and note the common themes. For example, the egyptian pantheon pre-dates Christiany by 5k years, was practiced continually for 5.5k years and was clearly the inspiration for everything from Moses in the bullrushes to JC’s short weekend in Hades.
    Research the number of other messiahs that were running around Jerusalem at the same time, performing the same miracles.
    Critically examine the Jewish and Christian bibles and the number and types of discrepancies and errors.
    Read some books that explain evolution and show the overwhelming evidence of why evolution is correct.
    And finally, begin to think for yourself and question the doctrine that you have been swimming in since birth.
    If at that point you still believe, at least post on a christian site where everyone can appreciate your piety and blind faith and won’t be bored by your insipid thoughts.

    *sigh*….you dont work at a Nuclear Power plant do you?

    “A preoccupation with the next world pretty clearly signals an inability to cope credibly with this one.”
    -Quellcrist Falconer

  17. Steve J says:

    Dig the site. I recommend “Letters from the Earth” by Mark Twain. Think you’d like it considering the blogs.

  18. Peter Hallett says:

    Sorry Monica, your post above is low- level atheistic apologetics. I guess you got that point from some other comments (some of which are a bit unkind). Anyway, a good read might be Reason for God by Timothy Keller which is a respectful (to believers and non-believers)defence of Christian belief and covers most of the things mentioned above. I’m not sure why you are determinedly atheist but your sincerity I can appreciate.

  19. Doug says:

    Listen Monica I don’t know you at all, but I ran across one of your #iconfess on twitter and I will be honest there is a God, there is a creator, there is a savior, and Idk if you have hurt by the “church” or your bitter at God for something that has gone on in your life. but whatever it is, it’s not your fault. He is the way the truth and the life, he desires to have a relationship with you. I promise you must give him a chance before you automatically count him out.. and that also goes to any other person that is reading this post. Give God a chance!!!

  20. duple46 says:

    This is islamic propaganda, ignore.

  21. Max Tasker says:

    The Creator God IS the answer. We as Humans have just forgotten the Question..

  22. namqdia says:

    my ex-atheist friend said, “atheism does not exist, we do need a god.”
    he has two kids now.

    i say, ” we have the right to ask. what do we believe is other approaching.”

    at first, maybe i am just to afraid to be alone. but on the second thought… i am alone.

    sorry, if my english not to good.

  23. Neville says:

    I believe in God because I looked for the positive answers and not the negatives. You don’t find anything assuming the negative to be true. Look for Noah’s Ark, Crossing the Red see, Mount Sinai, Sodom and Gomorah, Jericho, the possible discovery of Goliath’s grave, to name a few.
    There is only 6,000 years cosmic dust on the moon.

    To paraphrase the Bible
    ‘If you don’t look you cannot find.’

  24. Chris says:

    There are millions of Christian converts around the world every year. They aren’t inheriting the “precise” religion of their parents or culture.

  25. Chris says:

    Mark – Paul was good friends with Luke. Luke quoted Jesus in the Gospel of Luke and Paul preached Jesus. Luke never met Jesus either and I’m sure these guys were deeper thinkers than we give them credit for. Pork isn’t that great. :)

  26. I was indocrtinated as a child and still suffer severe anxiety and ptsd from thoe horrors of learning to pour hot lead down someones throat as a form of the death penalty. Why are they on death row? Because they picked up sticks. We had fcking tests on these topics! As an adult I feel physically ill about what was poured into my clean brain, and how my parents could ever give me away to those evil clergy. Please people THINK FOR YOURSELVES!!

  27. rzr says:

    The Abrahamic religions (christianity, islam and judaism) are all based on guilt – that you owe the god something because it has done something out of love for you and you need to return the favor – and the idea that you somehow can’t be truly happy unless you submit to their particular god’s will. This, especially combined with ignorance, will easily convert people. Those of us that have no religion and/or don’t believe in gods (atheists) can easily tell you that you don’t need superstition to be happy.

    I am perfectly happy. I find joy and “spirituality” in other things; Music being one example, my girlfriend is another. Religion and/or a belief in a god is -not- necessary to lead a perfectly fulfilling life, and anyone who tries to tell you different is -lying-. They may not be -aware- that they’re lying and their intentions may be good, but they’re still lying. It is simply not an objectively true statement.

    I find that what works for my own personal happiness is freedom. Religion is not compatible with freedom, because you are a slave to the god you adhere to. This is why one needs to keep religion out of politics for example. Ironically, most religious people don’t seem to see this. Then again, some people may prefer being a slave. No judgement from me, you can choose to be a slave if you like. When you try to impose that slavery on others however, that’s when you’ll see me – and others – fighting back. And I’m so glad to see that in recent years, this fight has been escalating. It’s high time to call out the oppressive nature of the biggest religions and how it’s holding us back as a species.

    Religion is stagnation, science is progression. Some people don’t like change, some do. In the end, what will benefit us more?

  28. apologianick says:

    Wow. Atheist arguments get more and more ignorant.

    I see someone has copied Richard Dawkins’s supposed 747 argument as if it was a clencher. Really, it makes me laugh. (Richie D assumes that God is material in it. Since God is not material, He does not have parts to his essence and in fact is the most simple being of all in relation to His ontology since His existence is His essence.

    Mithraism? Oh please. No one takes that seriously except for atheists and such online who think they’ve stumbled across something new.

    Hey. If you want to really discuss these, let me know. I’ll be glad to create a thread for you in Deeper Waters at TheologyWeb.com. I’m ApologiaPhoenix there. These are kiddie objections that have been answered a thousand times before and we just love showing how bankrupt they are.

  29. Pingback: Are you religious? - Page 8

  30. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    http://www.FFRF.org/

    Hey Voss, YOU poor Child, ARE A PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT who is SO programmed you have NO clue you were, and are, programmed! You Voss are as programmed as Pavlo’s dogs!
    And yet, as you not only have no idea your are, you will swear you are not. Only most American Atheists all know better as we have “been there” and “done that”!!

    IF you had a clue, you would know the ONLY reason you are NOT a JEW or A MOSLEM is BECAUSE OF WHO RAISED YOU! And the ONLY reason YOU do not believe in MANY gods is because you were NOT raised by Hindus!

    There is NO proof ANY god is real. NOT one of the TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND gods which we humans have INVENTED, NAMED AND WORSHIPED is REAL!

    Any, and ALL Gods ONLY exist in the MINDS of the poor little Programmed Robots who believe in them! NO god, or gods exist in the REAL world and NO god has any power!

    Truth is, AS NO competent god who was caring, loving, compassionate & kind who was also both All Powerful and All Knowing god would ever create a world like ours! And then, worse yet, fill it with the creatures He-She-It has, it means YOUR GOD IS A TOTALLY INCOMPETENT god!

    You SEE CHILD, facts are, MOST American Atheists WERE, LIKE YOU, Christians. So, do not waste your time and effort spouting your STUPID religious drivil at us BECAUSE WE KNOW BETTER!

    WE HAVE BEEN THERE!!! DONE THAT!

    Tell me child, are you really so totally clueless you think you know more about your Childish Religious MYTH called Christianity than FORMER Christian ministers Dan Barker and John W. Loftus?

    YOU DON’T!

    So GO play with the rest of the programmed robots and leave the thinking to those of us who actually can, and do, think with the FREEDOM which NON-religious belief brings!

    Neil C. Reinhardt

    “A 75 year old Pro Iraq War Agnostic Atheist Activist, 101st Airborne Vet and an Iconoclastic, Philosophizing, Beach VolleyBall Playing Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach!”

  31. TO ALL ATHEISTS

    1. I hope all of you read my reply to one of the Programmed Religious Robot Christians named Voss dated 11-9-01

    2. Here are some links to sites listing many of the more famous Atheists.

    http://www.celebatheists.com/

    http://www.jmarkgilbert.com/atheists.html

    http://machineslikeus.com/famous-atheists.html

    3. The following are organizations which all Atheists who are sick and tired of being treated like we are not as good as religious people are should join. And then support with money and your effort!

    http://www.Atheists.org/

    http://www.AtheistsUnited.org/

    http://www.FFRF.org/

    http://MAAF.info/

    Thanks for your time!

    Neil C. Reinhardt

    “A 75 year old Pro Iraq War Agnostic Atheist Activist, 101st Airborne Vet and an Iconoclastic, Philosophizing, Beach VolleyBall Playing Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach!”

  32. While I can understand your anger about being indoctrinated into your parents religion, you should give them a break as they were PROGRAMMED by those who raised them.

    It IS an endless cycle of parents after parents programming their children into the religion they were programmed into. The odds are high your poor parents were so programmed they had NO clue at all they were, and if still alive, still are, programmed!

    So try to understand a little. And IF you can, try explaining to them that the ONLY reason they are NOT a Jews or Moslems is only because of who raised them! And the ONLY reason they do not believe in many gods is because they were NOT raised by Hindus!

    Thanks for your time!

    Neil C. Reinhardt

    “A 75 year old Pro Iraq War Agnostic Atheist Activist, 101st Airborne Vet and an Iconoclastic, Philosophizing, Beach VolleyBall Playing Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach!”

  33. AndrewFinden says:

    Richard

    So try to understand a little. And IF you can, try explaining to them that the ONLY reason they are NOT a Jews or Moslems is only because of who raised them! And the ONLY reason they do not believe in many gods is because they were NOT raised by Hindus!

    I’ve met enough Christians who were raised Hindu, Jewish and Muslim to know that your shouting of ‘only’ is ‘only’ dogmatic rhetoric.

  34. AndrewFinden says:

    Ah.. it’s been a while since I’ve been to TheologyWeb (Findo) should call back sometime..

    I agree, Dawkins’ Ultimate 747 Gambit is philosophically juvenile as Ward has so aptly demonstrated.

    In fact, I would suggest that a certain amount of philosophical naivity is a hall-mark of the so-called ‘new atheism’. The ‘old’ ones like Nietzsche knew exactly that ‘God is dead’ led to nihilsm. The ‘new’ want to have their cake and eat it, spending left over Christian credit on things like morality and ethics.

  35. DIVING FOR TRUTH?

    YOU FUNNY!

    You Poor Programmed Religious Robots would not know what the truth is were it a sharp pointed cactus you sat on while you were naked! Who DOES know the TRUTH are the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of FORMER Christians who ARE now Atheists!

    Tell me Child, it your superstitious little Christian myth is so great, why are there MILLIONS who have LEFT IT?

    IF your poorly written Bible is so great and your god so good, why does your god kill over a million innocent people?

    Why do so many Christians begin their journey out of dogma and faith into knowledge and reason After Their Reading the Bible cover to cover?

    WE ATHEISTS URGE YOU BELIEVERS TO READ THE BIBLE! AND READ ALL OF IT! (And not just some selected passages.)

    To repeat what I posted to VOSS, do not waste your time and effort spouting your STUPID religious Drivel to us as we know better! We have BEEN THERE & DONE THAT!

    Last, are you, like Voss, really so totally clueless you think you know more about your Childish Religious MYTH called Christianity than FORMER Christian ministers Dan Barker and John W. Loftus?

    YOU DON’T!

    Neil C. Reinhardt

    “A 75 year old Pro Iraq War Agnostic Atheist Activist, 101st Airborne Vet and an Iconoclastic, Philosophizing, Beach VolleyBall Playing Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach!”

  36. AndrewFinden says:

    you think you know more about your Childish Religious MYTH called Christianity than FORMER Christian ministers Dan Barker and John W. Loftus?

    Because those two were clearly leading Christian thinkers before they de-converted.. oh wait, no they weren’t. And no one has ever rebutted their arguments.. oh wait, they have.. Still, don’t let that get in the way of your nice circular argument(that only those who’ve rejected Christianity really know the truth about it) – in fact, seems like there’s a little hint of no true scotsman thrown in for good measure.

    Sorry to break it to you, but two Christian pastors who left Christianity isn’t evidence of anything except two Christian pastors leaving Christianity.
    For every ex-pastor there is an ex-atheist too.. cuts both ways, and is ultimately a fallacious argument from popularity.

  37. AndrewFinden says:

    Religion is stagnation, science is progression.

    Religion and science are not in opposition (indeed, one must ignore the very history of the modern scientific method to suggest it). The conflict is between theism and naturalism.

  38. apologianick says:

    Neil: DIVING FOR TRUTH?

    YOU FUNNY!

    Reply: Hey Neil. It’s okay. We know you gave up truth a long time ago when emotion became your main way of thinking.

    Neil: You Poor Programmed Religious Robots would not know what the truth is were it a sharp pointed cactus you sat on while you were naked! Who DOES know the TRUTH are the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of FORMER Christians who ARE now Atheists!

    Reply: I’m sorry. Does an assertion count as an argument? Of course, how do you know you know the truth? You can only point to reality. Instead, all you’ve pointed to is where people were raised. Let’s see. If I’m raised in a real conservative family, I won’t believe in evolution likely. If I’m raised in Europe, I likely will. Therefore, the truth there depends on where I was raised.

    Neil: Tell me Child, it your superstitious little Christian myth is so great, why are there MILLIONS who have LEFT IT?

    Reply: Okay. I’ll tell you moron. It’s because they become people like you who only think emotionally. They were fundamentalists when they became Christians and they just became fundamentalists for atheism. They never learned how to think to begin with and when trials came, they fell away.

    It’s hard to see how this can go against Christianity since Christianity predicts this.

    I could just as well say “Since atheism is true, why have so many left atheism?” Neither explains the data.

    Neil: IF your poorly written Bible is so great and your god so good, why does your god kill over a million innocent people?

    Reply: Excuse me. Could you give me the moral standard by which you determine who is and who isn’t innocent and why killing is wrong.

    You see, I serve a God who takes sin seriously and is not just sentiment. Your thinking is that of an emotional atheist.

    Neil: Why do so many Christians begin their journey out of dogma and faith into knowledge and reason After Their Reading the Bible cover to cover?

    Reply: See above. They’re fundamentalist in their thinking and don’t know how to interact with a book like the Bible properly.

    Neil:WE ATHEISTS URGE YOU BELIEVERS TO READ THE BIBLE! AND READ ALL OF IT! (And not just some selected passages.)

    Reply: I’ve done it at least a dozen times. Going through it again.

    Neil: To repeat what I posted to VOSS, do not waste your time and effort spouting your STUPID religious Drivel to us as we know better! We have BEEN THERE & DONE THAT!

    Reply: It’s so cute when you rant like this.

    Neil: Last, are you, like Voss, really so totally clueless you think you know more about your Childish Religious MYTH called Christianity than FORMER Christian ministers Dan Barker and John W. Loftus?

    YOU DON’T!

    Reply: Why yes I do. Dan Barker holds to a Christ-myth view which tells me how clueless he is on research.

    Loftus….Loftus…Why does that name sound familiar?

    Oh yeah! That’s right! He’s the one I debated on TheologyWeb.com on the problem of natural evil. It’s the debate he’s still licking his wounds over.

    Oh we know all about Loftus and Barker at Tektonics, and we’ve had a lot of fun with Loftus.

    Neil: Neil C. Reinhardt

    “A 75 year old Pro Iraq War Agnostic Atheist Activist, 101st Airborne Vet and an Iconoclastic, Philosophizing, Beach VolleyBall Playing Grumpy Old Son Of A Beach!”

    Reply: Take philosophizing out. Philosophy requires that you think. Not that you rant.

  39. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    Oh how cute, two ot the PRR’s (OR “Programmed Religious Robots”) continue to prove how programmed they are.

    “Because those two were clearly leading Christian thinkers before they de-converted.. oh wait, no they weren’t.

    SORRY, THERE ARE NO CHRISTIAN THINKERS!

    IF THEY ACTUALLY WERE “THINKERS” THEY WOULD.D NOT STILL BE CHRISTIANS!

    DUH!

    “Sorry to break it to you, but two Christian pastors who left Christianity isn’t evidence of anything except two Christian pastors leaving Christianity.”

    IF YOU HAD A CLUE, YOU WOULD KNOW THEY ARE ONLY TWO OF MANY, MANY FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO WERE IN THE CLERGY

    “For every ex-pastor there is an ex-atheist too.. cuts both ways, and is ultimately a fallacious argument from popularity.”

    THIS PROVES THE ONLY THING WHICH EXCEEDS YOUR INFINITE IGNORANCE OF THE FACTS IS YOUR ASTRONOMICAL ARROGANCE YOU HAVE THE SLIGHTEST CLUE!

    AND CHILD, YOU DO NOT!

    I ONLY KNOW OF ONE PERSON WHO WAS RAISED AS AN ATHEIST WHO IS NOW A CHRISTIAN AND HE WAS BLACKMAILED IN TO IT.

    ALSO, COMPARING PEOPLE WHO HAVE DEDICATED THEIR LIVES TO
    THEIR RELIGION AND THEN LEFT IT TO ATHEISTS IS ILLOGICAL. (AND STUPID!)

    Reply
    apologianick November 10, 2010 at 8:20 am #
    Neil: DIVING FOR TRUTH?
    YOU FUNNY!

    Reply: Hey Neil. It’s okay. We know you gave up truth a long time ago when emotion became your main way of thinking.

    THE USE OF EMOTION IS FINE AS LONG AS IT IS NOT USED TO ARRIVE AT A PERSON CONCLUSIONS.

    AND CHILD, LOGIC, KNOWLEDGE ACTA AND CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS WERE USED TO ARRIVE AT MY CONCLUSION ON THE STUPIDLY OF RELIGION

    Neil: You Poor Programmed Religious Robots would not know what the truth is were it a sharp pointed cactus you sat on while you were naked! Who DOES know the TRUTH! THERE are the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of FORMER Christians who ARE now Atheists!

    :Reply: I’m sorry. Does an assertion count as an argument?

    IT IS A FACT! ONE WHICH ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY HAD SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT KNOWS

    (SURE LEAVES YOU OUT.)

    Of course, how do you know you know the truth? You can only point to reality. Instead, all you’ve pointed to is where people were raised.

    WRONG! TRY TAKING A COURSE IN HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS. I SAID WHO RAISED THEM WAS DECIDED WHAT GOD AND RELIGION THEY BELIEVED IN. NOT WHERE THEY WERE RAISED.

    Let’s see. If I’m raised in a real conservative family, I won’t believe in evolution likely. If I’m raised in Europe, I likely will. Therefore, the truth there depends on where I was raised.

    NO CHILD, TRUTH IS FACT AND IT SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSE WITH MERE BELIEF/

    Reply: Okay. I’ll tell you moron. It’s because they become people like you who only think emotionally. They were fundamentalists when they became Christians and they just became fundamentalists for atheism. They never learned how to think to begin with and when trials came, they fell away.

    Moron?

    How cute, since you can’t beat me with knowledge, facts or logic, you call me a moron.

    1. If I was a moron Child, I would still be a Christian!

    2. The odds of you exceeding my gifted level IQ and my nearly double the national average in AQ are are so close to zero they may as well be ZERO!

    (AQ child, is ABILITY QUOTIENT and it how well people us their IQ)

    THERE ARE NO “FUNDAMENTALISTS” IN ATHEISM!

    ONLY A PRR LIKE YOU WOLD SAY SUCH A STUPID THING!

    It’s hard to see how this can go against Christianity since Christianity predicts this.

    PREDICTS WHAT? THE FACTS MANY MILLIONS MORE CHRISTIANS WILL DEPROGRAM THEMSELVES AND JOIN THE MULTI MILLIONS WHO HAVE?

    I could just as well say “Since atheism is true, why have so many left atheism?” Neither explains the data.

    AS MANY HAVE NOT LEFT ATHEISM YOU ARE EITHER IGNORANT OF THE FACTS OR YOU ARE A LIAR!

    Reply: Excuse me. Could you give me the moral standard by which you determine who is and who isn’t innocent and why
    killing is wrong. You see, I serve a God who takes sin seriously and is not just sentiment.

    YOU SAY YOU READ THE BIBLE AND YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR MAKE BELIEVE GOD KILLS OVER A MILLION?

    Neil: Why do so many Christians begin their journey out of dogma and faith into knowledge and reason After Their Reading the Bible cover to cover?

    Neil:WE ATHEISTS URGE YOU BELIEVERS TO READ THE BIBLE! AND READ ALL OF IT! (And not just some selected passages.)

    REPLY: I’ve done it at least a dozen times. Going through it again.

    IF YOU HAVE READ THAT MANY TIMES AND STILL BELIEVE YO ARE ONE SUPER PROGRAMME ROBOT!

    Your “just” god tells Christians to:

    ——————–

    Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    Deuteronomy 13:7-12

    ——————————-

    Death to Followers of Other Religions
        
    Exodus 22:19 NAB

    ———————————–
     
    Kill Nonbelievers
       
    2 Chronicles 15:12-13

    ———————————–

    Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
       
    Deuteronomy 17:12

    ———————————–
      
    Kill Witches
       
    Exodus 22:17

    ———————————–
     
    Kill Homosexuals
       
    Leviticus 20:13

    ———————————–
      
    Kill Fortunetellers
       
    Leviticus 20:27

    ———————————–
      
    Death for Hitting Dad
       
    Exodus 21:15

    ———————————–
      
    Death for Cursing Parents
       
    Leviticus 20:9

    ———————————–
     
    Death for Adultery
       
    Leviticus 20:10

    ———————————–
     
    Death for Fornication
       
    Leviticus 21:9 NAB

    ———————————–
      
    Kill False Prophets
       
    Zechariah 13:3 NAB

    ———————————–
      
    Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God    

    Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )

    ——————————–
     
    Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB
     
    ————————

    Do not waste your time and effort spouting your STUPID religious Drivel to us as we know better!

    We have BEEN THERE & DONE THAT!

    Reply: It’s so cute when you rant like this.

    CALL IT WHAT YOU MAY, IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE TRUTH OF IT.

    END OF THIS AS PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOTS LIKE YOU ARE NOT WORTH ANY MORE OF MY TIME.

  40. apologianick says:

    Here comes Silly Neily again! Let’s see how idiotic he is this time!

    Silly Neily: THE USE OF EMOTION IS FINE AS LONG AS IT IS NOT USED TO ARRIVE AT A PERSON CONCLUSIONS.

    Reply: Then stop using it to do so. You have zero logic.

    Silly Neily: AND CHILD, LOGIC, KNOWLEDGE ACTA AND CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS WERE USED TO ARRIVE AT MY CONCLUSION ON THE STUPIDLY OF RELIGION

    Reply: Baloney. All you have is argument by outrage. You choose which kind of knowledge you want to address and I’ll address it. Logic and critical thinking? Sorry. I’ve got more books in my library than you’ve ever read. (Okay. Just one would be more, but the point stands)

    Neil: You Poor Programmed Religious Robots would not know what the truth is were it a sharp pointed cactus you sat on while you were naked! Who DOES know the TRUTH! THERE are the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of FORMER Christians who ARE now Atheists!

    Reply: Yes. They were fundamentalists who just changed their allegiance. To say that those who deconverted are the ones who have it right is to simply use circular reasoning.

    Neil: IT IS A FACT! ONE WHICH ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY HAD SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT KNOWS

    Reply: Ad hominem, circular reasoning, poisoning the well, hasty generalization.

    Yes boys and girls! Read Silly Neily’s replies and circle the fallacies as you see them being broken.

    Neil: (SURE LEAVES YOU OUT.)

    Reply: I’m sorry. Is the response of some whiner on the net who can’t put together an argument without an emotional appeal supposed to bother me?

    Neil:WRONG! TRY TAKING A COURSE IN HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR READING COMPREHENSION SKILLS. I SAID WHO RAISED THEM WAS DECIDED WHAT GOD AND RELIGION THEY BELIEVED IN. NOT WHERE THEY WERE RAISED.

    Reply: WHich is what I had said. Where you are raised does make it more likely you will believe what is believed around there, but it is irrelevant to determining the truth of said belief.

    Neil: NO CHILD, TRUTH IS FACT AND IT SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSE WITH MERE BELIEF/

    Reply: Yawn. You’re confusing the substance of truth with the response to truth. Whether one believes in evolution or not is irrelevant to the truth. The subjective experience of believing a truth claim can be based on where one is raised. The objective content of that truth claim does not.

    Neil: Moron?

    How cute, since you can’t beat me with knowledge, facts or logic, you call me a moron.

    Reply: No. I called you a moron because you are one.

    Neil: 1. If I was a moron Child, I would still be a Christian!

    Reply: If you think you can best me, you’re free to come to TheologyWeb.com. I’ll create a thread in Deeper Waters just for you.

    Neil: 2. The odds of you exceeding my gifted level IQ and my nearly double the national average in AQ are are so close to zero they may as well be ZERO!

    Reply: Sorry. You don’t know my IQ scores and by the way, if you had read a work such as “The Limits of Science”, you would know that IQ is an attempt to quantify something that really can’t be quantified.

    Neil: (AQ child, is ABILITY QUOTIENT and it how well people us their IQ)

    Reply: Is this the ability to show yourself an idiot? You’re doing great at that.

    Neil: THERE ARE NO “FUNDAMENTALISTS” IN ATHEISM!

    ONLY A PRR LIKE YOU WOLD SAY SUCH A STUPID THING!

    REply: Oh please. All of the new atheists are fundamentalists and you’re a king one. They think the same way, just with a different worldview behind it.

    Neil: PREDICTS WHAT? THE FACTS MANY MILLIONS MORE CHRISTIANS WILL DEPROGRAM THEMSELVES AND JOIN THE MULTI MILLIONS WHO HAVE?

    Reply: No. That people will fall away because they don’t have the tenacity or the intellectual rigor.

    Neil: AS MANY HAVE NOT LEFT ATHEISM YOU ARE EITHER IGNORANT OF THE FACTS OR YOU ARE A LIAR!

    Reply: Actually, they have. Not just atheism but many other worldviews.

    Neil: YOU SAY YOU READ THE BIBLE AND YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR MAKE BELIEVE GOD KILLS OVER A MILLION?

    Reply: I know my God kills a lot of people. I just asked you the moral standard by which you condemn that action.

    But that’s okay. I know reading comprehension is hard for you.

    Neil: IF YOU HAVE READ THAT MANY TIMES AND STILL BELIEVE YO ARE ONE SUPER PROGRAMME ROBOT!

    Reply: No. I’m someone who studies and understands the background context.

    Neil: Your “just” god tells Christians to:

    ——————–

    Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    Deuteronomy 13:7-12

    ——————————-

    Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Exodus 22:19 NAB

    ———————————–

    Kill Nonbelievers

    2 Chronicles 15:12-13

    ———————————–

    Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

    Deuteronomy 17:12

    ———————————–

    Kill Witches

    Exodus 22:17

    ———————————–

    Kill Homosexuals

    Leviticus 20:13

    ———————————–

    Kill Fortunetellers

    Leviticus 20:27

    ———————————–

    Death for Hitting Dad

    Exodus 21:15

    ———————————–

    Death for Cursing Parents

    Leviticus 20:9

    ———————————–

    Death for Adultery

    Leviticus 20:10

    ———————————–

    Death for Fornication

    Leviticus 21:9 NAB

    ———————————–

    Kill False Prophets

    Zechariah 13:3 NAB

    ———————————–

    Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Deuteronomy 13:13-19 )

    ——————————–

    Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB

    ————————

    Do not waste your time and effort spouting your STUPID religious Drivel to us as we know better!

    Reply: And did you know that all of these were for the theocracy in Israel and not to be done beyond the bounds of Israel? Israel was never told to declare holy war on those outside of the land of Israel. In fact, they were to act as priests for them.

    Now please, give me an objection I haven’t seen before.

    Neil: We have BEEN THERE & DONE THAT!

    Reply; Yes. You are still ranting like a child.

    Neil: CALL IT WHAT YOU MAY, IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE TRUTH OF IT.

    END OF THIS AS PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOTS LIKE YOU ARE NOT WORTH ANY MORE OF MY TIME.

    Reply: If you want to get yours handed to you at TheologyWeb, just say so. But then, I understand why you wouldn’t show up. I’d be embarrassed if I was crying like a child here too.

    Maybe we can reply when you grow up.

  41. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    GROW UP?

    LOOK YOU STUPID PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT LITTLE PUNK, I AM NEARLY 76 YEARS OLD,

    THE ODDS ARE I HAVE DONE MORE GROWN UP THINGS THAN YOU WILL EVER COME CLOSE TO DONG IF YOU LIVE TWICE AS LONG AS I HAVE!

    I SERVED MY COUNTY FOR 10 YEARS.
    I’VE SAVED LIVES & STOPPED CRIMES!
    BROKEN UP FIGHTS! BEEN A DEEP SEA DIVER AND A PARATROOPER, AN ELECTRONICS MANUFACTURING MANAGER AND AN INDUSTRIAL ENGINEER, A LIFE GUARD AND AN
    MP AS WELL AS A CIVIL DEFENCE AUXILIARY POLICE OFFICER. (and more)

    SO DON’T TELL ME ABOUT GROWN UP YOU TOTAL IDIOT!

    YOU ARE JUST A TYPICAL, LOW – LIFE, TRASH TALKING CHRISTIAN PUNK COWARD!

    HIDING BEHIND A SCREEN NAME WHILE YOU DISPARAGE THOSE LIKE JOHN W. LOFTUS, DAN BARKER AND I WHO USE OUR FULL NAMES.

    HEY TROGLODYTE, LOGICAL PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE IN GODS. WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN THINGS WHICH BREAK THE LAWS OF PHYSICS & OF REASON. OF NATURE, LOGIC AND OF COMMON SENSE.

    ONLY PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOTS LIKE YOU BELIEVE IN SUCH RIDICULOUS THINGS

    AND FYI, IN THE N.T. CHILD, J.C. SAYS EVERY THING IN THE O.T IS TO BE FOLLOWED. SO ALL THOSE YOUR GOD SAYS YOU SHOULD KILL ARE STILL IN DANGER FROM YOU, AND YOUR ASININE ILK.

    THE VAST MAJORITY WHO READ THIS WILL SEE IT IS YOU PRR’S WHO ARE THE IDIOTIC MORONS!

    YOU PRR’S ARE SO STUPID YOU GO TO ATHEIST FORUMS AND SPOUT YOUR STUPID RELIGIOUS BULL SHIT TO THOSE WHO HAVE REJECTED YOUR CHILDISH SUPERSTITION. TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW IT’S ALL TOTAL BULL SHIT.

    RELIGION = MYTH INFORMATION

    YOUR GOD, CHILD, IS INCOMPETENT, JUST LIKE YOU!

    SO KISS OFF YOU COWARD PUNK!

  42. apologianick says:

    In comes Silly Neily again! Please everyone. Wipe off the spit from your monitors that comes from the crying.

    Silly Neily:

    GROW UP?

    Reply: Yes. Is this the part where you just repeat what I said?

    Silly Neily: LOOK YOU STUPID PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOT LITTLE PUNK, I AM NEARLY 76 YEARS OLD,

    Reply: For all the talk about robots, I wonder why the new atheists say the exact same thing and every book I read of theirs, I can tell what they’re going to argue before they argue it.

    76 years old? It just means you’ve survived. Act with the wisdom according to living that long. I have a high respect for elders, but I expect them to act like elders. Your rant was no different from what I’ve seen from a high schooler.

    Silly Neily: THE ODDS ARE I HAVE DONE MORE GROWN UP THINGS THAN YOU WILL EVER COME CLOSE TO DONG IF YOU LIVE TWICE AS LONG AS I HAVE!

    Reply: Then act accordingly. If you want real dialogue, give real dialogue. If you want to act tough, I respond in kind.

    Silly Neily: I SERVED MY COUNTY FOR 10 YEARS.
    I’VE SAVED LIVES & STOPPED CRIMES!
    BROKEN UP FIGHTS! BEEN A DEEP SEA DIVER AND A PARATROOPER, AN ELECTRONICS MANUFACTURING MANAGER AND AN INDUSTRIAL ENGINEER, A LIFE GUARD AND AN
    MP AS WELL AS A CIVIL DEFENCE AUXILIARY POLICE OFFICER. (and more)

    Reply: Are you trying to convince me of something or yourself? I honor military service, but I’m being mild compared to anything a good drill sergeant would give you. In the military, you should know respect is earned. It’s the same way in debate. I can respect service done in the military, but I have no respect for someone who goes around mocking every single Christian out there past and present and who I can tell has zero familiarity with the arguments.

    Silly Neily: SO DON’T TELL ME ABOUT GROWN UP YOU TOTAL IDIOT!

    Reply: Act accordingly then. You want a real dialogue? Give one. You want to just have an emotional whine? You’ll get a fitting response.

    Silly Neily: YOU ARE JUST A TYPICAL, LOW – LIFE, TRASH TALKING CHRISTIAN PUNK COWARD!

    Reply: I suppose this is why I haven’t seen you show up yet on TheologyWeb to challenge me when I said I’d make a thread just for you. I also notice you didn’t reply when I said I had debated Loftus.

    Unlike you, I actually read what I disagree with, including anything of the new atheists I can get my hands on. Their books are funny. My highlighter goes into overdrive counting all the mistakes they make.

    And yes, they are fundamentalists.

    Silly Neily: HIDING BEHIND A SCREEN NAME WHILE YOU DISPARAGE THOSE LIKE JOHN W. LOFTUS, DAN BARKER AND I WHO USE OUR FULL NAMES.

    Reply: My real name is out there for anyone who wants to look. I don’t care if someone goes by a real name or a pseudonym. I care about the arguments. Your looking at such a silly point tells me more about you than it does about me.

    Silly Neily: HEY TROGLODYTE, LOGICAL PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE IN GODS. WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN THINGS WHICH BREAK THE LAWS OF PHYSICS & OF REASON. OF NATURE, LOGIC AND OF COMMON SENSE.

    Reply: Sorry, but I don’t believe in a God who violates the laws of nature either. That’s not what a miracle is. Also, I don’t believe in God violating the laws of logic as well. Logic is in his nature and God cannot do contradictions.

    As for common sense, for all this talk of common sense, it would seem it must not be common since most of the world past and present consists of people who have been theists.

    It also means great thinkers like Plato, Aristotle, Epictetus, Seneca, and Plotinus did not have common sense.

    Silly Neily: ONLY PROGRAMMED RELIGIOUS ROBOTS LIKE YOU BELIEVE IN SUCH RIDICULOUS THINGS

    Reply: Then I guess you’ll include me with the great thinkers of the past who were theists. Sorry. I stand on the shoulders of giants.

    Silly Neily: AND FYI, IN THE N.T. CHILD, J.C. SAYS EVERY THING IN THE O.T IS TO BE FOLLOWED. SO ALL THOSE YOUR GOD SAYS YOU SHOULD KILL ARE STILL IN DANGER FROM YOU, AND YOUR ASININE ILK.

    Reply: Sorry, but I do actual research instead of just going to EvilBible.com like you did and copying and pasting just rearranging a few things here or there. That shows me enough about the depth of your research.

    Jesus instead said that he did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. He did. The Pauline epistles show the effects of the life of Christ. The laws were meant for a theocracy within the borders of Israel. Once they’re in the land, you don’t see them going out and warring against other nations. On the contrary, they were to act as priests for those nations.

    Have you ever even read anything on theology or any commentaries? Wait. No need. The answer is no.

    Silly Neily: THE VAST MAJORITY WHO READ THIS WILL SEE IT IS YOU PRR’S WHO ARE THE IDIOTIC MORONS!

    Reply: Argument ad populum? It doesn’t surprise me that most on an atheistic site would think I am in the wrong. So what? I think they’re in the wrong. My beliefs don’t change with public opinion. Apparently, yours do.

    Silly Neily: YOU PRR’S ARE SO STUPID YOU GO TO ATHEIST FORUMS AND SPOUT YOUR STUPID RELIGIOUS BULL SHIT TO THOSE WHO HAVE REJECTED YOUR CHILDISH SUPERSTITION. TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW IT’S ALL TOTAL BULL SHIT.

    Reply: You’ve given no reason to think that. You have given zero arguments that God doesn’t exist and zero arguments against the resurrection. Instead, you’ve given a rant that looks more like what a high schooler would say.

    Silly Neily: RELIGION = MYTH INFORMATION

    Reply: Sorry. I don’t accept assertions as arguments. I require data.

    Silly Neily: YOUR GOD, CHILD, IS INCOMPETENT, JUST LIKE YOU!

    Reply: And yet you haven’t seemed to accept my offer to come to TheologyWeb.

    Silly Neily: SO KISS OFF YOU COWARD PUNK!

    Reply: Can’t really be a coward if I’m still here. I would say the coward is the one who’s afraid to have his ideas questioned. He can only point to himself instead of support for his arguments.

  43. AndrewFinden says:

    Neil, if you could stop yelling for a moment (or maybe you just don’t realise that ALL CAPS is the internet equivalent of yelling?) you might notice that your argument is fallaciously circular (and has hints of the No true Scotsman fallacy too):

    SORRY, THERE ARE NO CHRISTIAN THINKERS!

    IF THEY ACTUALLY WERE “THINKERS” THEY WOULD.D NOT STILL BE CHRISTIANS!

    DUH!

    It won’t do to simply use ad hominem to avoid this logical fallacy. I assume I don’t need to explain what a circular argument is.

    Also, the following argument about Barker and Loftus is a fallacious appeal to authority and numbers:

    IF YOU HAD A CLUE, YOU WOULD KNOW THEY ARE ONLY TWO OF MANY, MANY FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO WERE IN THE CLERGY

    And let’s not let some fruity rhetoric and ad homimen distract from the fallacy of insufficient sample in this argument:

    THIS PROVES THE ONLY THING WHICH EXCEEDS YOUR INFINITE IGNORANCE OF THE FACTS IS YOUR ASTRONOMICAL ARROGANCE YOU HAVE THE SLIGHTEST CLUE!

    AND CHILD, YOU DO NOT!

    I ONLY KNOW OF ONE PERSON WHO WAS RAISED AS AN ATHEIST WHO IS NOW A CHRISTIAN AND HE WAS BLACKMAILED IN TO IT.

    All in all, it’s a pretty disappointing, and fallacy filled diatribe, Neil. The vehemence and dogmatism with which you assert it only serves to make you look like the kind of fundamentalist you appear to hate. You praise your own logic, yet fail to recognise the numerous logical fallacies in your own argument. That’s not good. No amount of ad homimen name-calling (i.e. your cute little PRR schtick) will make up for that, sorry.

  44. AndrewFinden says:

    Name-calling is not cool. Play the ball, not the man, even if the opponent is not reciprocating. If we can’t show some grace in disagreement, we need to step back for moment and ask why we’re debating in the first place..

  45. apologianick says:

    Andrew. Why did the Israelites call Baalzebul by Baalzebub?

  46. apologianick says:

    Andrew. Let’s not get distracted. I understand your concerns. We can discuss this at Theologyweb.com if you’d prefer.

  47. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    Hi Andrew,

    THANK YOU for your comments. I try to refrain from calling individuals names only when I am attacked and/or insulted for no valid reason, my quick temper kicks in and I respond in kind.

    And it angers me even more when those doing the attacking and/or insulting are dishonest, no integrity cowards hiding behind their computes and using scree names. Plus when some idiot tells me, a person who has tested high on logic test and has been lauded for my ability to use logic, that I am not using logic.

    I do not consider my referring to religious people as being “Programmed Religious Robots” to be calling them names. This is because there are multi millions of former religious people who know it is true. And will admit is what they were until they successfully De-programmed themselves.

    YOU are one of those with integrity as you do use your name and I applaud you for it.

    Here is a link to an awesome lady (wish I were younger and she did not like girls) whose intelligent logical and rational comments you may enjoy.

    Tammy Bruce

    http://www.tammybruce.com

    thank you!

    Neil

  48. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    http://www.tammybruce.com

    http://www.FFRF.org/

    apologianick

    1. YOU ARE a COWARD as you do not use your own full name!

    2, YOU ARE a DISHONEST person who has neither HONOR or INTEGRITY as PROVEN by your not using your real full name.

    3. YOU ARE a total HYPOCRITE as you tell others to grow up while, at the same time, calling others childish names.

    All in All, YOU are just a Programmed Religious Robot and a total ZERO as a man!

  49. apologianick says:

    It’s simple Neil. I simply give someone what they give me. You want respect? You give it. You don’t want respect. You don’t give it.

    What did I see?

    I saw you labeling all Christians immediately as pre-programmed robots. That tells me you don’t think Christians can think for themselves and the conclusion is someone has to be an idiot to believe this.

    I saw you say there are no great Christian thinkers because all the great thinkers are atheists. First off, it’s a total denial of history. Plato and Aristotle weren’t Christians, but they sure weren’t atheists either. You can think Augustine and Aquinas were wrong, but they were great thinkers. Descartes was a great thinker. Leibniz was the only philosopher Bertrand Russell wrote a biography of and Leibniz was a devout Christian.

    Galileo and Copernicus and Kepler were Christians. Isaac Newton was a theist who sadly held to some Arian views but was not an atheist. Asa Gray who wrote the book Darwinianna praising Darwin was a botanist and devout Christian. Dawkins’s teacher at Oundle named Sanderson was a strong evolutionist and a devout Christian.

    Your typing in all caps is simply ranting. It’s shouting and it tells me you’re more emotional than rational.

    You’re not willing to engage with the arguments as you refuse to discuss a moral standard and instead wish to look at whether someone uses their real name or not, to which I told you where you could find mine. It doesn’t matter if someone uses a pseudonym or not. What matters is their arguments.

    Talk about being in war all you want. I respect service to America because I love this country, but just because you served, while I can respect the service, it doesn’t mean you’re impeccable. If you’re a soldier, you should know that when the opponent gets tough, you get just as tough.

    I saw your poor research methods where you went to EvilBible as a source. That tells me you’re sitting back using Google instead of actually doing any real research. The internet is not to be the main research. I prefer using things called books. I read several of them.

    I could also tell the weakness in argument when you used a line such as saying that the reason I believe X is because of where I was born. Yes. That makes me more likely to believe something. That says zilch however about the truth value. If you’re raised in the jungle in Africa, you’re less likely to believe in evolution than if you were raised in Europe.

    You came out with both guns blazing and that is the behavior of a wolf to Christians who just seeks to tear them down. Well I call a spade a spade. If you want to act like a wolf, you will be treated like a wolf. If you want to really discuss the issues, we can do that.

    Your reaction to what I said reveals more about you. You’re more interested in how you feel about something than you are about the truth itself. When you show me you really do have some respect, then we will be able to better dialogue better.

    Also, your atheism would be an embarrassment to the old atheists like Mackie and Nielsen and Flew. They knew a lot of the good that came about through Christianity and they respected Christians, but they made it clear that they disagreed. You’re more like the new atheists who don’t know what their opponents believe, admit they don’t know, and then they don’t care.

    I don’t mind you reading atheist literature. I think you should. Be real however and read what Christians have said in response. I make it a point to go through atheist books to see what they have to say and I’m immediately aware of the shallowness of their arguments and the lack of interaction with the other side.

    The ball’s in your court. You’ll determine what kind of conversation we have. If you really want to discuss the question of truth and see how Christianity handles objections, fine. If you want to just tear down Christians, you’ll get an appropriate response.

  50. AndrewFinden says:

    Neil,

    Calling someone a PRR may not be ‘name-calling’ but it’s still fallacious. It’s ad hominem and it’s begging the question. Pointing to some anecdotal evidence doesn’t rebut that I’m afraid. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, or doesn’t come to the same philosophical conclusions as you doesn’t mean they are programmed, nor does it mean they have not thought about it.

    It may well be so that you know people who were ‘programmed’ (I’m not saying it’s impossible, after all) but that does not mean everyone who is a religious believer is thus programmed. If you present anecdotal evidence, then I can equally present my own anecdotes of not only myself, but others who don’t necessarily hold the views of their parents.

    Ultimately, to use the PRR argument is a means to avoid actually dealing with arguments (but dismissing them a priori), and is thus not a rational argument.

    I’m not here to convince you about the arguments and evidence I find persuasive for God, but rather to ask you to question your approach here/

    Thanks.

  51. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    Look. “OH TOTALLY DENSE ONE”

    There were, and there ARE, those who believe the world is FLAT. And their IGNORANCE of the facts has NO effect on our oval world.

    Because YOU are IGNORANT of FACTS about babies and small children, BEING PROGRAMMED it to their religious beliefs does NOT change the reality of it being true.

    There are MANY MILLIONS of FORMER religious people who KNOW they WERE PROGRAMMED INTO their religious beliefs!

    So the fact YOU do not believe it means NOTHING!

    (Other than you are one ignorant PRR!)

    And as I said before

    IF Programmed Religious Robots like YOU had the SLIGHTEST clue, they would realize the ONLY reason they are NOT a Jew or a Moslem was because of WHO indoctrinated them long BEFORE he knew ANYTHING about life or Science or Logic or the fact MANY do NOT believe in the myths of religion.

    IF you had clue, YOU, and all other PRR’s, would ALSO realize the ONLY reason you do not believe in MANY gods is because you was NOT raised by Hindu parents!

    ANY and ALL gods ONLY exist in the minds of those who believe in them. NO god exists in the REAL World and NO god has ANY power to do a damn thing!

    It must really bother you Christians in the U. S. that the numbers of we Atheists is growing at an ever increasing rate. This includes both we “open” Atheists as well as all those (most Atheists ) who are too afraid of what Christians will do to them who do not make their Atheism public knowledge.

    Were I a Christian, I would BE ASHAMED there are many millions of Americans who are so afraid of Christians, they are forced to hide what they really feel and believe.

    Yet in spite of Atheist fears of the nasty things done to them by Christians, ALL of the following groups (I belong to all) are growing in numbers.

    http://www.Atheists.org/

    http://www.AtheistsUnited.org/

    http://www.FFRF.org/

    http://MAAF.info/

    Last, IF the Christian god actually existed as described, anyone with even most of a functioning brain knows any god who would create a nasty world like ours with Tsunamis, Volcanoes, Earthquakes, Fires, Floods, Landslides, Tornados, Plagues. Avalanches and Hurricanes, and then fill it with creatures which must kill others to eat to live and/or who tortures and kills for no reason, MUST BE AN INCOMPETENT GOD!

    I would NEVER even want to know such a totally worthless god, much less worship a He-She-It such as the god of the Christians.

  52. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    BIBLE QUIZ

    Is the Bible Really Such a “Good” Book?

    As a refreshing antidote to the plethora of piety on the Internet, the Freedom From Religion Foundation is debuting a challenging, yet fun Internet quiz:
              
    “What Do You Really Know about the Bible?”
          
    The Foundation promises both believers and unbelievers alike that they will be surprised by some of the answers to the 50-question, automatically graded Internet quiz.

    The quiz answers question the concept of the bible as a “good book,” and the bible’s reputation as a guide for “family values.” Bible rules & examples on child sacrifice, celibacy, the treatment of rape victims and “stubborn and rebellious sons” would shock modern society!

    So says quiz author Dan Barker, a former Christian Youth leader, a composer of over 100 published Christian songs & an Ordained Minister “who saved hundreds of souls”. Dan is now an Atheist & an author of various books including:

    “Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist.”
    (FYI, he also has one of the highest IQ’s in the world.)

    Some of the questions concern weighty matters, such as biblical rules about women or mandating genocide, and doctrinal matters, such as the true path to salvation.

    On the lighter side, are bible trivia questions, including such subjects as bats, brains and barbecued locusts.

    (Hint: you may be in trouble for eating shrimp for dinner last night).

    Unexpected admonitions concern the treatment of the handicapped, and men kissing men.

    A sample question asks:
              
    “Which one of these words is in the bible?”        

    “a. Trinity”
                        
    “b. Liberal”
              
    “c. Christmas”
              
    “d. Rapture”

    Those with a score of perfect to ten wrong are congratulated for “knowing more than a minister, priest or rabbi.”

    Those who miss most questions are asked:

    “Did you get your bible knowledge from Sunday School?”

    Quiz-takers who score fewer than ten correct answers are consoled:

    “Don’t feel bad. You may be better off not knowing much about the bible.”

    To learn what that tenth commandment really says, who “created evil,” why some Christmas traditions and women who wear jewelry are blasphemous, and the surprising prerequisite to make it into the “heavenly choir,” go to:
              
    “What Do You Really Know about the Bible?”    

    http://www.ffrf.org/bquiz.html

    by Dan Barker

    FFRF, Inc.

    http://www.ffrf.org

    ———————–

    NCR adds:

    1. I only know of TWO places in the Bible where it tells it’s readers to NOT KILL only TWICE (2) others while it tells them TO KILL TWENTY EIGHT TIMES!

    2. Ever wonder why many, many, many times more Americans go from being religious to being Atheists than go the other way?

    Read Dan’s book. learn how difficult his journey from lies and mental bondage to truth and freedom was. Learn how his journey proved to Dan how totally phoney far too many Christians are.

    If you are looking for Real TRUTH & Real FREEDOM, you NEED to read his book!

    “Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist.”
    You can get from: http://www.ffrf.org

    And ffrf not only has a lot of other great things to read as well, it has really neat things to buy (T Shirts- Cofffe Mugs, etc.) and ffrf is great organization to join as well

    CHECK IT OUT!  http://www.ffrf.org

  53. AndrewFinden says:

    Because YOU are IGNORANT of FACTS about babies and small children, BEING PROGRAMMED it to their religious beliefs does NOT change the reality of it being true.

    That some are does not mean all are.

    There are MANY MILLIONS of FORMER religious people who KNOW they WERE PROGRAMMED INTO their religious beliefs!

    So the fact YOU do not believe it means NOTHING!

    And there are also many who weren’t. The fact that you do not believe it means nothing.

    IF you had clue, YOU, and all other PRR’s, would ALSO realize the ONLY reason you do not believe in MANY gods is because you was NOT raised by Hindu parents!

    Except that I know people who were raised by Hindu parents who are Christians, which demonstrates that your claim is false. Further, I know why I believe in God, and that the reason is not because of upbringing – it may possible be a contributing reason (after all, just because your parents think something doesn’t mean it’s necessarily false) but it is certainly and demonstrably not the only reason. Your hyperbole is getting the way.

    NO god exists in the REAL World

    That’s actually a faith statement, seeing as you can’t actually demonstrate that empirically. (that’s not to say that because you can’t prove non-existence, that existence must be true – it is simply to point out that you are also going beyond the evidence in not just lacking belief in gods but believing in the non-existence of gods)

    Last, IF the Christian god actually existed as described, anyone with even most of a functioning brain knows any god who would create a nasty world like ours with Tsunamis, Volcanoes, Earthquakes, Fires, Floods, Landslides, Tornados, Plagues. Avalanches and Hurricanes, and then fill it with creatures which must kill others to eat to live and/or who tortures and kills for no reason, MUST BE AN INCOMPETENT GOD!

    Or perhaps they have some theological knowledge and recognise that you’ve got the order wrong there (plus a few other assumptions) and are missing a fundamental step in the cause of the problem. But that’s a red herring really.

  54. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    “And there are also many who weren’t.”

    THAT CHILD, IS TOTAL B.S.!

    YOUR COMMENTS ONLY PROVE HOW IGNORANT OF THE FACTS YOU ARE!

    “Except that I know people who were raised by Hindu parents who are Christians, which demonstrates that your claim is false.”

    MORE B.S.!

    AS THEY DID BELIEVE IN MANY GODS BEFORE THEY WERE CONVERTED AND THE REASON THEY DID WAS BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN PROGRAMMED TO DO SO!

    AND CHILD, WHEN CHILDREN ARE PROGRAMMED INTO BELIEVING ONE SET OF THINGS WHICH ARE TOTALLY ILLOGICAL AND IMPOSSIBLE, WHICH BREAK THE LAWS OF NATURE AND LOGIC, OF SCIENCE AND COMMON SENSE.TO ACCEPT FROM AUTHORITY

    IT IS VERY EASY TO GET THEM TO BELIEVE
    MORE OF THE SAME!

    DUH!

    THIS IS THE REASON WHY CULTS HAVE SUCH EASY PICKINGS. THE ONES THEY GET HAVE ALL BEEN PRE-CONDITIONED TO BELIEVE IN IMPOSSIBLE B.S.!

    JUST LIKE YOU!

    “Further, I know why I believe in God, and that the reason is not because of upbringing – it may possible be a contributing reason (after all, just because your parents think something doesn’t mean it’s necessarily false) but it is certainly and demonstrably not the only reason.”

    YOU WILL SWEAR ON A BIBLE YOU WERE NOT, IN ANY WAY, INSTRUCTED IN THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION BY YOUR PARENTS?

    WILL YOU SWEAR ON THE BIBLE, YOU NEVER SAID ANY CHRISTIAN PRAYERS BEFORE THE AGE OF SIX?

    REMEMBER, LYING IS A SIN!

    NEXT, OH SO ILLOGICAL ONE

    I DO NOT NEED FAITH TO SAY THERE ARE NO GODS, ANY MORE THAN I NEED ANY FAITH TO SAY THEE ARE NO 2OO FOOT TALL DINOSAURS LIVING IN THE LA AREA RIGHT NOW!

    IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THOSE WHO SAY SOMETHING IS NOT TRUE TO PROVE IT. WE DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE THE NEGATIVE.

    JUST LIKE IN A COURT OF LAW, OR IN THE LABS OF SCIENCE OR IN THE REALM OF COMMON SENSE, IT IS INCUMBENT ON THOSE WHO SAY THERE IS A GOD TO PROVE IT!

    YOU CAN’T!

    NO ONE EVER HAS!

    NO ONE EVER WILL!

    NO ONE CAN, CAUSE THERE AIN’T!

    THE ONLY ONES WHO SEE EVIDENCE OF GODS ARE THE PROGRAMMED!

    THE ONLY ONES WHO BELIEVE THERE ARE GODS ARE THE PROGRAMMED!

    PERIOD!

    YOUR LITTLE MICKEY MOUSE, MAKE BELIEVE GOD IS NO MORE REAL THAN ARE ANY OF THE OTHER TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND, NINE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE GODS HUMANS HAVE INVENTED, NAMED AND WORSHIPPED!

    AGAIN, IF the Christian god actually existed as described, anyone with even most of a functioning brain knows any god who would create a nasty world like ours with Tsunamis, Volcanoes, Earthquakes, Fires, Floods, Landslides, Tornados, Plagues. Avalanches and Hurricanes, and then fill it with creatures which must kill others to eat to live and/or who tortures and kills for no reason,

    IS A TOTALLY INCOMPETENT GOD!

    A TOTAL LOSER!!

    NOT ONE WORTHY OF RESPECT, MUCH LESS WORSHIP!

    PERIOD!

    END OF STORY!

  55. AndrewFinden says:

    Neil, please stop shouting.

    Whether you think it’s BS or not, it is demonstrably true that there are people who were raised in a different religion, or no religion, who are now Christians. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant to whether it’s true or not, and point is that it is demonstrable. Sorry.. but that’s simply the case, and calling me ‘child’ and just responding ‘BS’ is completely insufficient to change that.

    Further, your response is simply perpetuating the circular argument that if someone is a believer then they must have been programmed. It’s a fallacy, and will remain to be so.

    And if you were to read my response more carefully you would see that I did not claim to be raised in an atheist home. I did say that I don’t necessarily hold to all that my parents do – which demonstrates that I’m not simply programmed, but that I’ve thought about it, and further I assert that I do not believe just because my parents did (as well as pointing out that just because your parents believed something does not make it untrue) – indeed, your assertion to the contrary is completely arrogant and unfounded and you’ve got zero evidence for your assertion about what I believe, instead, you’ve just asserted your fallaciously circular argument (which is perhaps based simply on your own experience or an insufficient sample of anecdotal evidence). Please – if you insist on calling me names like ‘oh so illogical one’ at least stop using logical fallacies in your own arguments.

    You are also failing to realise the difference between negative and positive statements. It is one thing to lack belief in gods – that is a negative statement; but saying there are no gods is a positive statement which assumes a place of knowledge on the matter. You cannot demonstrate that there are no gods, so you cannot empirically say that – this is NOT the same as lacking belief. Your defence is invalid because you’re making a positive statement, not a negative one. As you point out – if you make a positive claim, the burden is on you to prove it.

    Really Neil, if all you’ve got is a great big circular logical fallacy, spiced with some pretty big prejudice, I think we’re done. I’m not interested in shouted, predictable (or should that be ‘programmed’?) responses that ignore criticism and rebuttal.

    Rhetoric does not a valid argument make.

  56. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    As Expected, YOU did NOT answer two simple questions?

    I guess they were too difficult for you.

  57. AndrewFinden says:

    The only questions I have not answered of yours are those relating to Americans (as I am not one). Maybe I missed seeing the questions you refer to, or maybe you missed seeing my answers.. either way, it’s a bit rude to jump to such conclusions as you do, Neil.

  58. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    NO one FORCES YOU to read my posts so STOP bitching about my use of CAPS!

    As YOU just keep PROVING how POOR your reading skills are, you should take a course on how vastly IMPROVE your Reading Comprehension Skills.

    You did NOT Answer my two Questions! (And as they only require ONE word answers, it should not be TOO hard for you.)

    1. YOU WILL SWEAR ON A BIBLE YOU WERE NOT, IN ANY WAY, INSTRUCTED IN THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION BY YOUR PARENTS?

    2. WILL YOU SWEAR ON THE BIBLE, YOU NEVER SAID ANY CHRISTIAN PRAYERS BEFORE THE AGE OF SIX?

    REMEMBER, LYING IS A SIN!

    Next, If you insist on clamoring about my bluntness and call me rude again I WILL SHOW you what REAL Rude is.

  59. AndrewFinden says:

    Neil, I find it terribly ironic that you act with so much hubris about my reading comprehension skills and fail to comprehend what I’ve written and notice that I did actually answer your questions – though not as simply and directly as perhaps you require. You see, I answered those questions while simultaneously pointing out how you were loading the questions. But because you missed it, here it is again:

    And if you were to read my response more carefully you would see that I did not claim to be raised in an atheist home. I did say that I don’t necessarily hold to all that my parents do – which demonstrates that I’m not simply programmed, but that I’ve thought about it, and further I assert that I do not believe just because my parents did (as well as pointing out that just because your parents believed something does not make it untrue) – indeed, your assertion to the contrary is completely arrogant and unfounded and you’ve got zero evidence for your assertion about what I believe, instead, you’ve just asserted your fallaciously circular argument (which is perhaps based simply on your own experience or an insufficient sample of anecdotal evidence).

    Perhaps it’s also worth repeating:

    Really Neil, if all you’ve got is a great big circular logical fallacy, spiced with some pretty big prejudice, I think we’re done. I’m not interested in shouted, predictable (or should that be ‘programmed’?) responses that ignore criticism and rebuttal.

    Rhetoric does not a valid argument make.

    Now presumably you’ll get in a tizz again because I referred to your shouting. You’re right, I don’t have to read it, and if it’s apparent that you will continue to shout, I won’t read it. Be clear then: my future non-response will be the result of attitude not the result of any kind of superior argument on your part (just in case you might be tempted to interpret it that way).

    Unless you’ve got anything new to add, I think we’re done, don’t you?

  60. apologianick says:

    I see Neil’s still ranting like a small child. He’s got Dawkins’s MO all over him, especially with this idea of indoctrination. I suppose that since in Communist countries where children are indoctrinated into atheism that atheism must be false.

    Or maybe, you know, we could do something totally revolutionary and actually look at the arguments instead of looking at motives. That’s the one thing Neil hasn’t done. He’s simply appealed to authority, namely Barker and Loftus.

    Barker I find hard to take seriously especially due to his stance on the historicity of Jesus. Loftus at least doesn’t go that far, but I have dealt with Loftus, including reading his book “Why I Rejected Christianity” and going through it with a fine-tooth comb. Oh. If anyone’s interested, they can read where I debated Loftus on Natural Evil here:

    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?61432-GYM-DEBATE-Katrina-and-quot-natural-quot-suffering-as-a-problem-for-the-faith-Nick-vs.-DJ

    Of course, for Neil to raise up natural evil assumes that there is a standard of good and evil and assumes that there is a way that the universe should be and yet is not that way. Why does he not follow Dawkins here and say “There is no good or evil. DNA neither knows nor cares, and we dance to its music.” That is along the lines of what he said in “River Out of Eden.” (You see Neil, some of us actually do this unique thing called “reading books we disagree with.”)

    Or if he wants to whine about indoctrination, maybe he could tell us about Mortimer Adler, one of the best thinkers of our time, who said in his later years that he was driven to Christianity by the force of its logic.

    Neil goes on about violating logic, yet doesn’t tell a law of logic Christianity violates and how. He tells us how common sense rules out a God, to which this common sense must not be common since most of the world consists of people who are theists.

    Neil seems to imply atheism is on the rise means something. To me, it means that people are not learning to think deeply about topics and are settling for shallow explanations, such as this belief that science is all-explanatory. Science can tell you about issues relating to matter, but science cannot settle the question of whether God exists or not, hence new atheists like Stenger and Richie D fail at the start. (That’s also why their books were so funny to read)

    Neil also makes much about a supposed quiz asking where the words Christmas, Liberal, Rapture, and Trinity are in the Bible. They’re not. The Trinity is a concept that is drawn out of the text and a translation of a Latin term meaning “Three in one.” The rapture is a concept I don’t even believe in but comes from the Greek word Harpazo. Liberal is a modern English term and the idea would not be found in Scripture. Christmas is a holiday that came later in challenge to a pagan holiday at the time to celebrate the birth of the savior.

    That Neil presents this as if it is devastating shows how shallow his understanding is. If he wants to say most Christians don’t have a clue about what they believe, I agree. The church has fallen for a much of mamby-pamby feeling and application alone. Nothing wrong with emotion and application as we are all emotional as well as rational beings. None of us are purely rational or purely emotional, though some of us are bent more towards one than the other, and there’s no wrong in that. My wife is more emotional and I’m more rational.

    Neil is simply ranting as is evidenced by his typing in caps over and over. He reminds me of what can be summed up about Christopher Hitchens’s argumentation which can be summed up in this sentence: “There is no God and I hate him.”

    If Neil would sit back and take a few deep breaths and actually learn something about discussion and what Christians believe rather than embarrassing himself constantly, he might develop a clue

  61. Neil C. Reinhardt says:

    FIRST, I FULLY Comprehend YOU have NOT answered two simple questions.

    Some Questions Child, like “Have you stopped beating your parents?” asked of a person who had never done such a thing can NOT be accurately answered with a “YES” or “NO” answer.

    Yet IN THIS instance, a “YES” or a “NO”
    answer is all which is required. A “YES” or a “NO” answer is all which is needed to answer those questions as fully as they could be answered.

    Yet YOU are such Programmed Religious Robot, you have shown you are incapable of even answering either “YES” or “NO” to my two SIMPLE questions

    AND CHILD, YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN EVEN ONE INSTANCE WHERE I HAVE NOT COMPREHEND ANYTHING YOU HAVE SAID.

    (OR are you so totally clueless you think “comprehension” requires agreement?)

    I COMPREHEND BOTH BULL SHIT AND NONE BULL SHIT. AS PROGRAMMED CHRISTENS LIKE YOU ARE FULL OF BULL SHIT, IT COMES IN HANDY.

    And Child, while tests have PROVEN my reading comprehension skills are well above 90 percent, my tested listening skills are FOUR times better than those of collage grads in fields like accounting, personal and engineering.

    YOU & NICKS ACTIONS PROVE YOU ARE VERY PROGRAMMED!

    MUCH MORE THAN MOST CHRISTIANS ARE. YOU SEE CHILD,
    MOST (NORMAL) CHRISTIANS ARE NOT AS PROGRAMMED AS ARE THE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE SO TOTALLY CLUELESS AS TO POST IN ATHEIST FORUMS.

    THEY DO NOT CARE ATHEISTS HAVE BLOGS AND FORUMS! UNLIKE YOU, THEY MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS.

    HEY NICK,

    SHOVE A SHARP POINTED CACTUS UP YOUR ASS AND ROTATE ON IT!!

    NOT YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE CAN PROVE YOUR GOD IS REAL SO WHY DON’T YOU GO PREACH TO THE CHOIR AND GET THE HELL OUT OF AN ATHEIST FORUM?

    ARE YOU CLOWNS ARE SO RETARDED YOU ACTUALLY THINK YOUR POSTING IN ATHEIST FORUMS IS GOING TO CHANGE THE MINDS OF THOSE WHO KNOW YOUR RELIGION IS TOTAL BULL SHIT?

    CHANGE THE MINDS OF FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE THROWN YOUR RELIGION IN THE GARBAGE CAN WERE IT BELONGS?

    GET REAL!

    OPPS, THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE, IF YOU GOT REAL, YOU WOULD NOT BE PUSHING YOUR CHILDISH MYTHS ON OTHERS OE EVEN BE A CHRISTIAN!

    WHY DON’T YOU BELIEVERS GO WHERE YOU ARE WANTED?

    STOP DOING ONE OF THE THINGS CHRISTIANS ARE HATED FOR?

    NO, YOU WILL NOT AS YOUR TOO PROGRAMMED TO STOP.

    OF COURSE, YOU JUST KEEP PROVING HOW PROGRAMMED YOU ARE EVERY TIME YOU POST IN AN ATHEIST FORUM.

    YOU POOR LITTLE RETARDS!

  62. apologianick says:

    Oh here comes little Neily again. Isn’t it so cute when he gets angry like this?

    Neil: HEY NICK,

    SHOVE A SHARP POINTED CACTUS UP YOUR ASS AND ROTATE ON IT!!

    Reply: Oh my. Here I call him a moron and he whines and he says something like this expecting I’ll get angry.

    No Neily. It just makes me laugh. Instead of giving an argument, you give the same kind of nonsense.

    Neily: NOT YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE CAN PROVE YOUR GOD IS REAL SO WHY DON’T YOU GO PREACH TO THE CHOIR AND GET THE HELL OUT OF AN ATHEIST FORUM?

    Reply: Oh yes. Can you big bad theists please leave the atheist forum? We’re all so insecure in our widdle bewiefs that we just can’t bear discussion past chanting the name of Richard Dawkins over and over.

    Neily: ARE YOU CLOWNS ARE SO RETARDED YOU ACTUALLY THINK YOUR POSTING IN ATHEIST FORUMS IS GOING TO CHANGE THE MINDS OF THOSE WHO KNOW YOUR RELIGION IS TOTAL BULL SHIT?

    Reply: Not at all Neily. I know you’re impervious to reason. You rely on emotion. I don’t expect a logical argument to dent you for a bit. Thanks for confirming that!

    Neily: CHANGE THE MINDS OF FORMER CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE THROWN YOUR RELIGION IN THE GARBAGE CAN WERE IT BELONGS?

    GET REAL!

    Reply: No. It’s just keeping wolves like you at bay. Seeing you foam at the mouth at the mention of God like Dracula fleeing at a crucifix is revealing.

    Neily: OPPS, THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE, IF YOU GOT REAL, YOU WOULD NOT BE PUSHING YOUR CHILDISH MYTHS ON OTHERS OE EVEN BE A CHRISTIAN!

    Reply: I’m sorry. Is there supposed to be an argument in here somewhere? Notice I gave an argument. You see, that’s where you put out facts rather than just opinions and ranting. Maybe someday you’ll learn how to do that.

    Neily: WHY DON’T YOU BELIEVERS GO WHERE YOU ARE WANTED?

    Reply: Oh. I get it! So the blogger put up something, but she didn’t want any comment from theists because that could hurt her pet theory.

    Oh you poor little insecure atheists.

    Neily: STOP DOING ONE OF THE THINGS CHRISTIANS ARE HATED FOR?

    Reply: Hey. Thanks for confirming your hatred of Christianity drives this rather than reason.

    Neily: NO, YOU WILL NOT AS YOUR TOO PROGRAMMED TO STOP.

    Reply: Nope. I act of my own free-will.

    On the other hand, every atheist I meet makes the exact same arguments.

    Neily: OF COURSE, YOU JUST KEEP PROVING HOW PROGRAMMED YOU ARE EVERY TIME YOU POST IN AN ATHEIST FORUM.

    YOU POOR LITTLE RETARDS!

    Reply:

    You really believe that?

    Tell you what, theologyweb is a forum with several different worldviews, including one sub-forum where only atheists or agnostics may post, no theists allowed.

    THere’s an advanced debate section where I took on Loftus.

    I’ll be glad to take you on there on God’s existence.

    Do you have what it takes?

  63. AndrewFinden says:

    One last try.

    Neil:

    FIRST, I FULLY Comprehend YOU have NOT answered two simple questions.

    Then your comprehension, as I demonstrated, is lacking.

    Some Questions Child, like “Have you stopped beating your parents?” asked of a person who had never done such a thing can NOT be accurately answered with a “YES” or “NO” answer.

    Your example here is one of the classic examples of a loaded question – and one is better off pointing out the fallacious nature of a loaded question than answering it!

    Yet IN THIS instance, a “YES” or a “NO”
    answer is all which is required. A “YES” or a “NO” answer is all which is needed to answer those questions as fully as they could be answered.

    Yet YOU are such Programmed Religious Robot, you have shown you are incapable of even answering either “YES” or “NO” to my two SIMPLE questions

    I generally find that when people are insisting on getting only a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to a “simple” question, it is almost certainly a loaded question – and I think that is the case here. Because, Neil, I can see exactly how you intend to fallaciously use a ‘yes’ answer to support a faulty argument. So my answer sought to cut off the fallacious argument you were using, and actually answered the questions – even those with lesser comprehension skills than your superior skills can see that. As you claim your comprehension skills are near-genius level, it would be patronising to think that you needed it reduced to ‘simple’ yes or no.

    AND CHILD, YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN EVEN ONE INSTANCE WHERE I HAVE NOT COMPREHEND ANYTHING YOU HAVE SAID.

    (OR are you so totally clueless you think “comprehension” requires agreement?)

    From where did you come to the erroneous comprhension that I thought ‘comprehension’ requires agreement?
    No, Neil, my demonstration of your lack of comprehension is your continual assertion that I did answer your question, and my demonstration that I have answered your question (while pointing out I didn’t answer it as simplistically as you want / require)

    I COMPREHEND BOTH BULL SHIT AND NONE[sic] BULL SHIT. AS PROGRAMMED CHRISTENS[sic] LIKE YOU ARE FULL OF BULL SHIT, IT COMES IN HANDY.

    And Child, while tests have PROVEN my reading comprehension skills are well above 90 percent, my tested listening skills are FOUR times better than those of collage[sic] grads in fields like accounting, personal[sic] and engineering.

    Hmm…

    Sadly, Neil – all that you have done is rant and shout and call me programmed. You have not deal with any of my actual arguments and criticisms. You have not stopped using logically fallacious arguments – all you’ve got is to yell that you’re right and I cannot be. Sorry, that doesn’t pass muster for valid argument. And worse, when it seems you realise you haven’t got anything more, you tell us to get lost (and worse)! I’m afraid you don’t seem to be a very good poster boy for atheist rationality and open-mindedness. The only programmed responses here seem to be yours, for they don’t change or even pay attention to what the other has said.

    But if perpetuating a fallaciously circular, question begging argument is ok with you, then go ahead.

    Take care, Neil.

  64. AndrewFinden says:

    Oh bugger… mustn’t have closed off my first blockquote tag properly..

    And I aidentally left out the word ‘not’ in the folw sentence:

    No, Neil, my demonstration of your lack of comprehension is your continual assertion that I did not answer your question, and my demonstration that I have answered your question

  65. AndrewFinden says:

    Cripes! I think my wireless keyboard battery is going – missing out half the word twice in one sentence!

    And I accidentally left out the word ‘not’ in the following sentence

  66. ppetty says:

    I know this is old, but I wanted to say something anyways. As an atheist, I have to say Neil does a very poor job defending my views.

    Anyone who was reading this discussion looking for an answer would, and should, find apologianick’s argument to be much more intelligent, logical, and rational.

    Despite what differences or disagreements we may have, I do not atually have a problem with people believing in god. apologianick, for example, is the kind of person I could easily get along with. Neil is not. I do not like Neil for the same reasons I am an atheist, and I like apologianick and AndrewFinden for those same reasons.

    I think Serendipity said it best in Dogma:
    “When are you people going to learn? It’s not about who’s right or wrong. No denomination’s nailed it yet, because they’re all too self-righteous to realize that it doesn’t matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith. Your hearts are in the right place, but your brains gotta to wake up.”

    It is my opinion that since atheists cannot prove there is no god, they should accept the possibility that there may actually be one. This is not the same as accepting that religion is absolutely correct, I do not believe that it is. I personally feel that if god were ever proved to exist, it would be vastly different from how christians imagine. On the flip side, I also feel that a religious person should not believe absolutely that there is a god, seeing as they do not have any proof either. Argue theology all you want, or the improbability/likelihood of a god, as long as you actually know what you are talking about. But going around flat-out denying or professing the existence of god is not something you can back up, no matter how logical or rational you are.

    A lot of the ‘new’ atheists are fundamentalists, and have no real right to being calling themselves atheists.

  67. What can one really say with such poor quality rhetoric in the way? I wonder.

  68. Pingback: What I Believe « Monicks: Unleashed

  69. nfanisha says:

    When you ask someone why do they believe in God, or try to convince them that they shouldn’t believe in God, you are as bad as the religious people who try to convince others that their religion is the best and that everyone else should believe in what they believe. God or no God, it is a spiritual feeling…if believing in God justifies someone’s living, let them live that way. if not believe in God answers all our questions, good, you rather stay with that. I am a non-believer, but I try not to impose my philosophy over others or convince them. Atheists seem to be some really modern progressive rational people who think that everyone has the right to lead their life in their own ways and not according to what your by birth religion has set forth for you, but then again, when I see them convincing other people why they shouldn’t believe in God, doesn’t that turn out to be hypocrisy? they are trying to impose their ideas on someone too.
    moreover, can you think of a world with no religion, a world where people believe in no super power? Look, you are educated, may be can think a lot of things on your own, find the logic. I belong to a third world country where most people are uneducated, poverty-prone and live a miserable life. When they lose a son and don’t get justice they believe may be their God would do justice to them one day. And this is what restrains them from killing the murderer of their son.They don’t take drugs because they know their religion calls it sin, and they do not do this. They are not educated enough to differentiate between the right and the wrong. Their religion does that for them and they can live a much regulated life. Religion is for this class of people in the society, because not everyone like you people can think on their own, they need something that can set the standards for them, otherwise the society would’ve been really uncivilized. Religion is necessary, for not all of the people in the society can think on their own.
    Live and let live. If we believe something, we should rather keep that to ourselves.

  70. Pingback: Christianity — new and improved « Monicks: Unleashed

  71. Devin says:

    I don’t. :)

  72. I believe the books main character because of all the feats done in the same book. By that logic he should believe in Superman, Wonder Woman etc..

    Poor fellow needs to learn about something called outlying data points, just because one poor old fool is afraid of death and turns to a way out doesn’t make the logical and reasoned arguments against it wrong.

    Why is it if you tell a mental professional “I believe in Jesus more then real people”..nothing happens. If you said “I believe in Santa Claus more then real people” you get committed. I read a book where Santa does miracles.

  73. It failure was so epic…he 404′d

  74. Wikipedia is the quick reference not a source cite. See how citing Wikipedia in a college paper works out you.

  75. Apparently you are an irrational, unthinking human that refuses to question authority. If your truth is so strong, question it. If your position is so noble, tell us why we’re wrong. Proclaiming your faith and granting us your pity is dishonorable to your faith and our intelligence.

  76. Really, NOT A SINGLE counter point…just passing rat-trap? Shucks what were we thinking…all the research and thought and reason and we didn’t read ANOTHER convoluted explanation explaining all the errors and contradictions and irrational thoughts.

  77. which God do you recommend? Christian God? Islamic God? Zeus? Too many to pick :s

  78. I’m impressed, I have to admit. Seldom do I come across a blog that’s
    both equally educative and amusing, and without a doubt, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The issue is something that too few men and women are speaking intelligently about. I’m very happy I
    found this in my search for something concerning this.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox

Join other followers:

%d bloggers like this: