Atheist Sunday School – The Historical Jesus
Today, like many other Sundays, we had Sunday School on Twitter. Since the topic was a bit long, a few of my friends suggested that I should preserve today’s stream of tweets for further reference. In fact, their suggestion was rather that I wrote these as a blog post, but my laziness knows no boundaries. My apologies.
So, to make it less embarrassing, let’s say that this is a raw draft of a future post; also, please consider that we have yet some facts that we need to review in our next Twitter Atheist Sunday School.
This is a fascinating story. In my opinion, everyone should have access to learn about these facts.
This is how we make atheists. 😉
Ok, it's #atheist Sunday School time. Who's up for an avalanche of Jesuses? I actually love this topic. Ready? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Was there a #Jesus? Of course there was a Jesus! Certainly! The case is, there were many – but no "Jesus of Nazareth." #atheist #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Sirach. This Jesus was reputedly the author of the Book of Sirach aka Ecclesiasticus or Wisdom of Jesus the Son of Sirach #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Ecclesiasticus is part of Old Testament Apocrypha. Ben Sirach, writing in Greek about 180 BC, brought together Jewish 'wisdom'. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Pandira. A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus 106-79 BC one of the most ruthless of the Maccabean kings #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
This Jesus launched his end-time prophecy which upset the king. He met his own end-time by being hung on a tree – on the eve of a Passover.
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Ananias. Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’ #aheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Ananias was considered as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Saphat. In the insurrection of 68AD that wrought havoc in Galilee, this Jesus had led the rebels in Tiberias. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
When the city was about to fall to Vespasian’s legionaries Jesus ben Saphat fled north to Tarichea on the Sea of Galilee. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Gamala. During 68/69 AD this Jesus was a leader of the ‘peace party’ in the civil war wrecking Judaea. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
When the Idumeans breached the walls of Jerusalem Jesus ben Gamala was put to death & his body thrown to the dogs and carrion birds #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Thebuth.A priest who in the final capitulation of the city in 69AD, saved his butt by trading the treasures of the Temple #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
But… was there a crucified Jesus? anyone? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Certainly. Jesus ben Stada – was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Jesus ben Stada met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
But… with so many Jesuses could there not have been a 'Jesus of Nazareth'? You might ask. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
See, he problem for this notion is that absolutely nothing corroborates the sacred biography, nothing at all. Nada. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
This 'greatest story' is full of numerous anachronisms, contradictions and absurdities. It just doesn't add up. Let's see… #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
At the time that Joseph & the pregnant Mary allegedly went off to Bethlehem for a Roman census, Galilee was not a Roman province… #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
…therefore there was no reason for the journey. Even if Galilee had been imperial territory, history knows of no universal census #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
This 'universal census' makes no sense. Roman taxes were based on property ownership not on a head count. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
… aaand, we now know that Nazareth did not exist before the second century. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Practically all the events of Jesus’ supposed life appear in the lives of mythical figures of far more ancient origin. Fishy, huh? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
There's hardly a word of Jesus that is not to be found in a parallel saying of the rabbis. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Another Jesus during the reign of Artaxerxes I of Persia 465-424 BC. His brother John, the High Priest slain him in the holy temple #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
By the Bible, Pilate offered the Jews the release of one prisoner & the cursed race chose Barabbas rather than gentle Jesus… #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
But in the original text, the chosen criminal was Jesus Barabbas – and Bar Abba in Hebrew means ‘Son of the Father’! Coincidence? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Are we to believe that Pilate had a Jesus, Son of God and a Jesus, Son of the Father in his prison at the same time??!! #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Perhaps the truth is that a single executed criminal helped flesh out the whole fantastic fable. Maybe? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Gospel writers, in scrambling details, used the Aramaic Barabbas knowing that few Latin or Greek speakers would know its meaning. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
A trial for Jesus, when suspected rebels were habitually arrested and executed by the Romans without trial? How so? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Philo of Alexandria (On the embassy to Gaius, XXXVIII) speaks of Pilate's 'continual murders of people untried and uncondemned.' #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
And why would the Romans have allowed a convicted felon to be almost immediately removed from his cross and put in a tomb? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Crucifixion was chosen precisely to make a public point that the most humiliating punishment awaits those who opposed Rome's will. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
"…For penalties relate not so much to retribution as to their exemplary effect." – Quintilian (AD 35-95, Decl 274) #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
At face value, Josephus appears to be the answer to the Christian apologist's dreams on the account for a historical Jesus. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
In a single paragraph, the so-called Testimonium Flavianum, Josephus confirms every salient aspect of the Christ-myth. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
But not a single writer before the 4th century in all their defense against pagan hostility, makes reference to Josephus’ words. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
BUT… not so fast…
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
How could Josephus claim that Jesus had been the answer to his messianic hopes yet remain an orthodox Jew? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
If Josephus thought Jesus had been 'the Christ' he would have added more about him than a casual aside paragraph in Pilate's story. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
In fact, the Josephus paragraph about Jesus does not appear until the beginning of the fourth century, at the time of Constantine. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Bishop Eusebius, Church propagandist & self-confessed liar-for-god, was the first person known to have quoted Josephus' paragraph. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
This happened about the year 340 AD. This was after the Christians had become the custodians of religious correctness. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Whole libraries of antiquity were torched by the Xians. Yet unlike the works of his Jewish contemporaries, Josephus' histories survived.
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Josephus' histories survived because the Christian censors had a use for them…. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
The Christians planted evidence on Josephus, turning the leading Jewish historian of his day into a witness for Jesus Christ! #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Finding no references to Jesus in Josephus' original work, they interpolated a brief but all-embracing reference based purely on Xian belief
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
There's more, so much more, but that's gonna have to do for today's #AtheistSundaySchool. It's been a long lesson. You liked it? #Atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
Thank you all for attending and for your smart nice mentions. We will continue with this topic next time. Owe you guys some replies, sorry.
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 3, 2010
I can't safely say that we're having a fundieless day, for some @'s I've gotten, BUT it'is good. Know why? 'Cause it's #AtheistSundaySchool!
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
So let's resume from where we left off last time. If you missed last Sunday School it's all here » http://bit.ly/d8yvHH #atheism #atheist
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
The third century Church 'Father' Origen drew on all sorts of proofs & witnesses to his arguments in his defense of Christianity. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Origen quotes from Josephus extensively, yet no reference to his paragraph on Jesus, which would have been the ultimate rebuttal. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
In fact, Origen actually said that Josephus was "not believing in Jesus as the Christ." Of course! Josephus was an orthodox Jew! #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Josephus relates much more in his records about John the Baptist than about Jesus! Isn't that odd? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Josephus reports in great detail the antics of other self-proclaimed messiahs, including Judas of Galilee…. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
….. Theudas the Magician, & the unnamed 'Egyptian Jew' messiah. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Outside of this single bogus paragraph, in all the extensive histories of Josephus there is not a single reference to Christianity. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Justus of Tiberias was also an historian, a rival to Josephus, and from the same region. He makes not one mention of Jesus. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
No mention of 'Jesus of Nazareth' in Caius Suetonius' writings. He wrote a biography called Twelve Caesars around the year 112 AD. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
In the biography of Emperor Claudius, Suetonius did write about a "Chrestus." But, Jesus in Rome in 54 AD? Of course not! #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Jesus supposedly lived in the most well-documented period of antiquity, yet not a single non-Christian source mentions him. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
The awful truth is that the Christian Jesus was manufactured from plundered sources, re-purposed for the needs of the early Church. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
& even more Jesuses contemporaries of the supposed Christ: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus, Jesus ben Gamaliel.. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Even Saint Paul makes reference to a rival magician, preaching ‘another Jesus’ in 2 Corinthians 11:4. Makes you think, huh? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Virgin birth, prodigious youth, miracles, etc. had been ascribed to other gods, centuries before any Jewish holy man strolled about #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
The New Testament is full of prayers & hymns, but the early church did not attribute to Jesus the actual words of any of them…. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
…. something we might have expected of a great 'Teacher'. A sole exception appears to be 'Our Father' – but is it really? #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
The first and principal part of the 'Our Father' is a prayer for the coming of the 'kingdom of God', exactly as in the Kaddish. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
In contrast, the Christian community expressed eschatological hope for the return of its hero – NOT the advent of the 'kingdom.' #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
The 'Our Father' expresses nothing of the Christian belief that the Messiah had arrived in the person of Jesus. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
"Give us our daily bread" is taken from Proverbs (30.8) composed between the 6th – 3rd century BC. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
"Forgive thy neighbour if he hath hurt thee: and then shall thy sins be forgiven to thee" from Ecclesiasticus (28:2) 2nd century BC #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
There is no 'Lord's Prayer' in Mark, but 'Mark' (12.29-30) has 'one of the scribes' ask Jesus 'which is the 1st commandment?' …. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
… & he gives a very Jewish answer:"The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord" Mark 12:29 #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
In Luke this guy had caught sight of Jesus praying (talking to himself if we believe in the Trinity) 'Teach us how to pray' he asks #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
The response is the short version of the 'Lord's Prayer' found in Luke. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
Matthew re-worked Luke's prayer into the longer version known to all. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
In short, the godman's prayer was derived from older Jewish sources. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
The 'Our Father' far from being unique, original, or evidence of a godman, is just a handful of recycled Jewish invocations. #atheism
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
That's gonna have to do for Atheist Sunday School, I have a funeral to attend, and – like always – I'm late. Happy Sunday everyone! Ttyl.
— Monica Salcedo (@Monicks) October 17, 2010
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